Author Topic: Kratom combinations?  (Read 13266 times)

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Offline pshmell

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2009, 10:32:50 pm »
Very dizzy to the point of needing to sit down calmly rather than moving around, and feeling pretty nauseous. Also feeling jittery and overstimulated. Left the party early due to this unpleasant combination, the feeling lasted a couple hours before going away.

I've had the same feeling without any Kratom in my system. Not a tobacco user, but I'll occasionally smoke hookah because I like the flavor, the headrush, and the buzz. I smoked it for the first time in a few months last week. I was enjoying the buzz, but I just kept hitting it. After about 10 passes (probably 20-30 hits), a wave of 'bad' hit me. I started feeling all anxious and jittery. When I tried to get up to leave, I had little to no balance, and almost fell over. I walked to the bus stop, got on the bus and went home. I was jittery and shaking my legs the whole time. Felt like I wanted to puke until I ate some strawberries.

I think I'll lay off the tobacco for a while.

Offline DrYRHead

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2009, 11:34:35 pm »
Yes, some people that smoke MJ and hash do not do tobacco.
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Offline Frogg

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2009, 08:19:43 pm »
I am new to Kratom having been very interested for quite sometime just never got around to it...only recently was first experiment....already can tell it is going to be a favorite.

So far the Kratom (Super Indo powder specifically) has shown great narcotic like properties...tho subtle at first then growing into a near nodding out feeling...this from 3 1/2 teaspoons stirred in honey and swallowed. A couple hours later one felt the urge to make up a tea adding 5 teaspoons of powder...Vile, awful--not sickening or gag-inducing but terrible none-the-less. Once finally down (with the aid of Orange Juice) I layed down and let the juices flow and sink in...Feeling ULTRA relaxed, I decided to mix with 18.75 mg of Hydrocodone....fucking beautiful feeling.

Next would like to try a mixture of Ephreda Sinica with the Super Indo Kratom powder...Try exploring the stimulating properties...I love a good upper.

So far have felt no ill effects--no nausea, dizziness, etc...and if I'm not mistaken 8 1/2 teaspoons in one evening is a pretty hefty dose. Unfortunately I do not have scales available at the moment...

Anyone can tell me of teaspoon to gram ratio? Would be rather helpful? thanks...

 
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2009, 10:47:51 am »
One teaspoon is usually about 5 grams, as you say 8 and 1/2 should be a pretty hefty dose  :-o If one has a tolerance to opiates already, this could explain the high dose, or perhaps just individual variations in potency of the plant material. Individual sensitivity also varies, a friend can get nauseous off as little as 1 tsp! Whereas it takes two heaping tablespoons to do me in.
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Offline Frogg

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2009, 11:16:13 am »
Actually I need to make a correction to what I said my dose was--I used about 8 1/2 HALF teaspoons...so it wasn't as hefty as initially thought...however effects were very pleasant....

recently, after a morning of heavy Ephedra Sinica (powder) use and extensive workout/jogging...I dosed with 3 teaspoons (toss n' wash) of Indo Super....wait 5 minutes then a small glass of wine+sipping on grapefruit juice.  Also very pleasant. rather lucid and dreamy...

Am wondering about 6 or 7 HBWR seeds followed by another 3 teaspoons of Indo Super...possibly a teaspoon or 2 of Ephedra....Any ideas? Seems to me might be a pleasant and enjoyable and trippy mix............

BTW, I think I have fallen in love with Kratom..................

 
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2009, 03:32:10 pm »
Anyone have any idea how long kratom would stay good for?
Lets say a bag of mostly crushed leaf that was sitting in a cabinet for ~ 3 years, would it be worth even bothering to try out?
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Offline DrYRHead

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2009, 07:36:09 pm »
Yes, one has done kratom that stale before, and it was still active.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2009, 07:55:30 pm »
Actually I need to make a correction to what I said my dose was--I used about 8 1/2 HALF teaspoons...so it wasn't as hefty as initially thought...however effects were very pleasant....
[...]
Am wondering about 6 or 7 HBWR seeds followed by another 3 teaspoons of Indo Super...possibly a teaspoon or 2 of Ephedra....Any ideas? Seems to me might be a pleasant and enjoyable and trippy mix............
So your optimum dose is pretty close to mine then. I think the HBWR + kratom would make a good "herbal ecstasy" kind of high, though possibly the nausea could be troublesome.

ST1R, old kratom leaves should retain most of their potency.
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2009, 07:59:28 pm »
Thank you both. :-*
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Offline Kratom

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2009, 07:05:48 pm »
At risk of sounding like a bore here I have never entertained the thought of mixing my Kratom. I use it purely for pain relief and it is amazing. It has literally restarted my life. I had been suffering chronic pain due to a climbing accident. I never liked the meds perspired to me due to some nasty side effects. A friend turned me onto Kratom and since then I can lead a fairly normal life. It has had such a beneficial effect on my life I named myself after it  :haha:
No way I will mix it with it with anything as I dont treat it as a recreational drug, but interesting to see what else can be done with it. Enjoy, it is a truly amazing plant!

Offline DrYRHead

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 05:33:46 pm »
Kratom should be taken sparingly. A tolerance can build fast, an it is still expensive as far as legal herbs are concerned.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2009, 05:43:41 pm »
No way I will mix it with it with anything as I dont treat it as a recreational drug, but interesting to see what else can be done with it. Enjoy, it is a truly amazing plant!
Indeed. One could mix it with other herbs to potentiate the pain-relieving properties, though. Allowing one to use a lower dose of kratom for the same quality of pain relief. Blue lotus or kava would both work well for this, or even some lemon grass (anti-inflammatory), willow bark, sage or mint etc. All these herbs have mild analgesic properties which would go well with the kratom.

Kratom should be taken sparingly. A tolerance can build fast, an it is still expensive as far as legal herbs are concerned.
If one buys by the kilo, it works out to about $3 for a solid dose. That's a pretty reasonable price. Tolerance does go up quickly, one can use kratom two days in a row but by the third or fourth day the tolerance does become a problem.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2009, 03:46:36 am »
Kratom as anti-histamine:

I have mentioned before that kratom is an excellent decongestant. Better than anything you can buy in a store, I guarantee it. Recently we have been discovering that kratom may have actual anti-histamine properties. Those suffering from allergies and hay fever report this plant is very effective at busting red, itchy eyes as well as clogged noses. It actually blocks the allergic reaction.

"I didn't think the kratom would actually work, but after just four sips my eyes stopped itching!"
- eyewitness testimonial.

It is interesting, because typical opiates cause itchiness as a side effect. Kratom seems to have the opposite effect.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 03:49:38 am by Papyrifera »
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2009, 09:17:36 am »
Hmmm kratom to cure opi itchies?
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2009, 06:46:22 pm »
Perhaps, never tried it though.
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Offline DrYRHead

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2009, 05:20:47 pm »
Kratom can still cause constipation like Opiates though.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2009, 06:53:04 pm »
Really? I've always found it had the opposite effect, keeping everything smooth flowing  :haha:
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Offline ST1R

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2009, 07:17:32 pm »
Do either of you consume the foliage as part of your intake?
Ya know like eating the tea grounds, mixing powdered leaf into applesauce or whatever?
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2009, 08:46:01 pm »
I usually put a big spoonful of powder in the bottom of a mason jar and fill it up with hot water. The jar is swirled before each sip and thus all of the plant material is consumed slowly. I find the mix of water extraction and powder nice because the liquid part hits you first and the powder releases more a little later.

A friend prefers to encapsulate the powder and eats them two at a time slowly, drinking hot water to activate the kratom in his stomach.
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Offline Teotzlcoatl

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2009, 11:25:34 am »
Analgesic Kratom-based "Knock-Out" Pill-

"Kratom" ~ Mitragyna speciosa (Bali strain)

"Myrrh" ~ Commiphora myrrha

"Yellow Hornpoppy" ~ Glaucium flavum

"Blackseed" ~ Nigella sativa

"Neem" ~ Azadirachta indica

"Dan Shen" ~ Salvia miltiorrhiza

"Yan Hu Suo" ~ Corydalis yanhusuo

"Egyptian Blue Lotus" ~ Nymphaea caerulea

"Sacred Lotus" ~ Nelumbo nucifera

"White Willow" ~ Salix alba

"Chili pepper" ~ Capsicum species

"Black pepper" ~ Piper nigrum


That shit would knock out even the hardest, hardhead!

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!


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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2009, 01:48:23 pm »
Analgesic Kratom-based "Knock-Out" Pill-
"Myrrh" ~ Commiphora myrrha

"Yellow Hornpoppy" ~ Glaucium flavum

"Blackseed" ~ Nigella sativa

"Neem" ~ Azadirachta indica

"Dan Shen" ~ Salvia miltiorrhiza

"Yan Hu Suo" ~ Corydalis yanhusuo

[...]
"White Willow" ~ Salix alba

"Chili pepper" ~ Capsicum species

"Black pepper" ~ Piper nigrum


That shit would knock out even the hardest, hardhead!
The first six, I don't see having too potent of a psychoactive effect, though they would help with the analgesia probably. The last three are just herbs and spices, hardly "knock out" drugs.

Azadirachta indica (Neem) (Meliaceae) – Neem essential oil has been shown to have strong insecticidal, insect repellant, and antibacterial action, as well as exhibiting anxiolytic effects similar to diazepam and analgesic effects  moderated through both opioid and non-opioid receptor systems. Neem oil contains a variety of terpenoids including azadiractin, azadirone, epoxyaxadiradione, nimbin, gedunin, azadiradione, deacetylnimbin, 17-hydroxyazadiradione and mahmoodin, which have antibacterial and insecticidal action. Also contains the terpenes cardinene, copaene and humulene, the antibacterial hydrocarbons icosane, docosane, 2-methyltricosane and docosene, and a variety of fatty acids.

Capsicum species (Solonaceae) (Chile pepper) – Capsicum frutescens and other species of capsicum are native to Central and South America and Zanzibar. The fruits are used as a food and as a spice for “hot” chile pepper varieties. Hot chile peppers contain the compound capsaicin which irritates mucosal membrane receptors. This results in a false pain signal coming from these mucosal membranes (no damage actually occurs), and the body responds by increasing the release of endorphins which block the pain signals at opiate receptors. Capsaicin also directly interacts with the vanillin receptor complex which mediates pain signals and is closely linked with opiate receptors. This combination of actions results in the strong analgesic and slight euphoriant effects of hot chile peppers. Capsaicin also induces perspiration and is a stimulant. The chile pepper fruit has also be found to contain the chemicals 1,8-cineole, camphor, carvone, chlorogenic acid and scopoletin, all of which are considered CNS-stimulants, and thujone, which is considered a narcotic, stimulant and hallucinogenic.

Corydalis species (Papaveraceae) – Corydalis is a member of the alkaloid rich Papaveraceae family, and most species are rich in benzoisoquinoline alkaloids. Corydalis species have been used as sedative, narcotic and tranquilizing agents in Chinese medicine. Tetrahydropalmatine, derived from Corydalis yanhuosco, has been shown to be a potent dopamine receptor agonist, and has sedative and narcotic effects. Corydalis is generally considered to be toxic. Corydalis cava and C. solida are listed as hallucinogenic and sedative. C. solida is also listed as a nervine agent, and C. ambigua as a sedative.

Nigella sativa (Ranunculaceae) (Black Cumin) – Listed as a stimulant.

Salix species (Salicaceae) (Willow) – Willow bark contains twelve different salicyclates, making up 1.5-11% of the dry weight of the bark. Salicin, salicortin, tremulacin and 2’-O’acetylsalicortin, as well as aromatic aldehydes (such as vanillin), flavonoids and tannins are found in the bark. Effective as an analgesic and antipyretic agent. Willow bark has also been shown to have a slower, more prolonged effect due to the slow absorption and conversion in the body to more active forms of the natural salicyclates, and to cause less stomach upset, and fewer side-effects. Sali alba, S. gooddingii, S. nigra and S. purpurea are listed as hypnotic and sedative agents. Salix caprea is listed as a stimulant and aphrodisiac.

[...]

I might suggest adding a couple plants: Sagebrush (Artemisia species) and garden sage (Salvia officinalis) both have mild analgesic properties, as does mint. Or, this funny one:

Cornus stolonifera (Cornaceae) - Red Osier Dogwood is one of the most potent analgesic plants in my area, and very little researched. Saponins are probably the active agents. The preparation for this plant is to peel the bark and separate the white inner bark (active portion) from the outer bark, just as you would do with willow. For optimal potency harvest in spring after the snow melts or late in the fall season. The inner bark can be smoked, chewed or made into tea.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 02:26:35 pm by Papyrifera »
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Offline DrYRHead

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2009, 05:46:38 pm »
Actually I need to make a correction to what I said my dose was--I used about 8 1/2 HALF teaspoons...so it wasn't as hefty as initially thought...however effects were very pleasant....

recently, after a morning of heavy Ephedra Sinica (powder) use and extensive workout/jogging...I dosed with 3 teaspoons (toss n' wash) of Indo Super....wait 5 minutes then a small glass of wine+sipping on grapefruit juice.  Also very pleasant. rather lucid and dreamy...

Am wondering about 6 or 7 HBWR seeds followed by another 3 teaspoons of Indo Super...possibly a teaspoon or 2 of Ephedra....Any ideas? Seems to me might be a pleasant and enjoyable and trippy mix............

BTW, I think I have fallen in love with Kratom..................

 
Such a 3 way combo could lad to a rather XTC like dream.
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Offline Teotzlcoatl

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2009, 12:23:33 pm »
Try them all mixed together.

Get a needle and poke yourself before and after taking it.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!


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Offline King

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2009, 12:43:05 pm »
Soma's... Not the giant red speckled mushroom, but the muscle relaxant.. It potentiates opiates somehow.. Dr. will prescribe it specifically to get more mileage out of a patients pain killer.. Seeing how Kratom acts on opiate receptors I don't see why it wouldn't do the same?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 12:44:22 pm by King »
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Offline Papyrifera

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Chewing Kratom... and make sure to drink some hot liquid after!
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2009, 10:07:27 pm »
My friend is a big fan of chewing kratom leaves, which had never really appealed to me that much as I love a tea made of finely ground leaves. This guy can easily mow down 30-40 grams over the course of a day, and his highest reported dose over a day is 90 (yes, 90!) grams. He said this was his favourite method of ingestion, as it provides an intensely euphoric and energizing buzz. He recommended having some food in the stomach before embarking on said chewing sessions, as chewing on an empty stomach can cause nausea. He also recommended drinking hot water after, saying it seems to activate the kratom leaves in the stomach.

So... I never really believe what someone tells me, until I have experienced it for myself. Recently at a festival, we started to chew the leaves (dried and crushed leaf, not powdered). And man, it was strong! Even one pinch of leaves, chewed and held in the mouth, gave a noticeable buzz. I found it more stimulating than making a tea of kratom. Chewing three pinches of leaves had us both very spaced out, and surprised at the strength of effect. We didn't chew very much, so I couldn't quite understand how my friend could chew 30-40 grams.... but the length of the "high" was significantly shorter. After an hour and a half, or two, we both felt we had come down and wanted to chew some more. When taken in tea, kratom lasts more like 5 hours.

So... we chewed another two or three pinches, and at a little bit of mushroom stem for good measure. The kratom dried out my mouth after a while of chewing, and I needed a little water to wash it down. We got SO spaced out. Really, really spacey from such a small amount of shrooms and just a little kratom.

Another time I tried chewing a few handfuls of the leaves on an empty stomach. I felt fine, not too high at all, and went home to eat a large meal which I washed down with a few cups of yerba mate. This seemed to activate the kratom in my stomach, kicking it in hard and fast. Soon I was dizzy, then nauseous, then vomitted my lovely dinner back up. I wasn't expecting it to kick in that hard, and that fast. I think drinking hot liquids definately has an effect, and maybe the food got my digestion going again. So watch out, for that unexpected second wave that can come. My friend reports that even hours after chewing the leaves there can be more waves of effect.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2009, 03:43:02 pm »
Using Kratom to wean off opiates?

A friend relayed some experience using kratom to wean off poppy seed tea. He hopes to avoid physical withdrawal effects by tapering off using kratom and knowing that kratom is easy for him to leave behind when the taper is done. This person had an abscessed tooth that had caused an infection spreading to the next two teeth also (youch  :cry:) and was making poppy seed tea to manage the pain until his appointment to have a root canal. His reported dose for the poppy tea was half a kilo. His method was to add the poppy seeds to a jar of warm water (from the tap, not kettle) with a little apple cider vinegar [Q: would this be almost useless, as with the lemon juice?], shake vigorously and allow to sit for a couple hours. The colour apparently varied from dark brown to quite light, and was a good indicator of potency, the darker being the stronger. The first wash was often quite dark, and the second wash would still be dark, but a third wash would come out almost clear and thus was deemed unnecessary.

On the first day he combined the poppy seed tea with a small dose of kratom (~8 grams). The pain relief was very good and so was the euphoria. However, it was easy to become nauseous with this combination. From days two to seven, he used only poppy seed tea. As tolerance built, the reduction of pain became less than before. His dose also increased, and one day he got sick from the poppy seed tea after drinking "Lots" and then "Lots more" so more than half a kilo for sure. Overall, he found it much easier to get sick from kratom than from poppy seed tea. He was having to pick out bits of food is they got stuck in his abscessed, broken tooth. Even the potency of his first day on poppy + kratom, was not enough to dull the sharp pain if he accidentally poked the exposed nerve ending. On day seven, he had his surgery.

On day eight he stopped drinking poppy tea, and to attempt to wean off using kratom to prevent a withdrawal. He experienced strong cravings for poppy tea. On his first day he took 40 grams of kratom "before I had even realized it" as it wasn't kicking in like usual. Apparently there is significant cross tolerance between opium poppy and kratom. So there was no warm fuzzy feeling from the kratom. However, he still got sick from taking so much and felt overstimulated. It seems the tendency to get sick and the stimulating effects of kratom are not effected by a tolerance to poppy seed tea. On day nine, he took a lower dose of 30 grams of kratom. There was a little of the usual warm feeling that had been missing the day before, but he got sick again. On day ten, he reduced his dose to one heaping tablespoon (10-15 grams probably). So far there has been no strong withdrawal effects, but this story is ongoing... will report back.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 03:44:17 pm by Papyrifera »
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2009, 04:00:06 pm »
Using kratom to wean off opiates? Yes it worked  :-)

I promised to report back on the above post, and was a little lax. Better late than never though...

This person continued to use kratom for several more days, at various dosages (going through about 150-200 grams?). He experienced no physical withdrawal effects from the poppy tea, and was able to leave the poppies behind easily in this manner. When he ran out of kratom, he was able to deal easily with not having any. Now, kratom builds up a tolerance pretty fast as you know. He reported not getting too much of an opiate-effect from the kratom, which was used for 10 days in a row! However, the stimulation still was present after ten days. If he took too much, he would mostly just feel overstimulated. The only disadvantage to using kratom to wean off poppy tea, was the amount of kratom he ran through. This man is already known for having a heavy level of kratom consumption, but when weaning off he was using even more than normal.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2009, 04:09:55 pm »
Speaking of tolerance to kratom... it is possible that using certain herbs would reduce or ameliorate the tolerance that builds up, to some extent. Possible herbs for reducing tolerance to kratom are:

Hibiscus vitifolius (Malvaceae) – Hibiscus is a genus of tropical shrubs with brilliantly coloured large flowers, usually red or yellow in colour. The flavonoid gossypin from yellow-flowered hibiscus has been shown to have analgesic effects similar to morphine, reduces acute tolerance to morphine, and has been shown to effect cholinergic and GABAergic neurotransmitter systems. Red flowered hibiscus is used to prepare a cold tea known as Jamaica punch that is a potent antioxidant.

Kava kava is known to increase the effects of opiates, and in one's experience definately increased the opiate-type effects of kratom also.

Rhodiola rosea combined with kratom seemed like it might have reduced tolerance a little bit, on the third day in a row using kratom. However, day four (with no kratom or rhodiola) was remarkable for how unproductive, unmotivated and grumpy one felt, so watch out for the rebound.
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Offline UrbanBotanist

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Re: Kratom combinations?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2010, 03:02:13 am »
Kratom + Marijuana is incredibly pleasant. :-D

Tea Valerian tea with Kratom is also something one has come to enjoy.

I wish I could add more combos but those are the only ones I've tried.
I have a feeling though given the incredibly "soft" profile of this miraculously(?feels that way) strong stimulator of opiate receptors, and what I've read in this thread I'm sure it would be great for use with psychedelics.
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Offline Papyrifera

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Using Kratom to Wean off Opiates? Second time round...
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2010, 04:50:50 pm »
Can you use kratom to wean off opiates effectively?
Using Kratom to wean off opiates?

A friend relayed some experience using kratom to wean off poppy seed tea. He hopes to avoid physical withdrawal effects by tapering off using kratom and knowing that kratom is easy for him to leave behind when the taper is done. This person had an abscessed tooth that had caused an infection
This exact same situation happened again!  :oops: The same person, same mouth, a different tooth this time became abscessed. Again this individual chose to use high doses of poppy seed tea to control pain for around two weeks. This individual had no access to kratom during this time, and thus was using the poppy seed tea. I don't know his dosages, but would guess that he started with half a kilo like last time, and ramped them up from there as his tolerance builds. It seems that this person enjoys the effects of opiates quite a bit, and thus is susceptible to becoming addicted to them.

Compared to the last time he went through this, this time the withdrawal effects from the poppy seed tea were much more pronounced and unpleasant. He reported an especially bothersome effect was the inability to sleep, because whenever he would be drifting off he would "jerk" out of sleep suddenly. He reports that kratom is "the only thing" that gives him relief, but that it is not a panacea for opiate withdrawal. It reduces the withdrawal effects, but does not eliminate them entirely. I recommended this person work with herbs like chamomile and lavender, made into a tea before bed, to aid falling asleep.

So far this person has gone through an astonishing half a kilo of "connoisseurs grade" kratom powder in the 12 days after stopping taking the poppy seed tea. His doses are insanely large, often forty grams or more daily. Apparently for the first 3-4 days the kratom itself did not have much in the way of a psychoactive effect, all it was doing was easing the withdrawal somewhat. The withdrawal effects were most intense on days 3, 4 and 5, and have been easing since then. On days 2, 3 and 4 the subject got almost no sleep at all. As the withdrawal effects started tapering off, the psychoactive properties of the kratom began to come back. They finally were able to sleep through the night.

Foolishly, this person did not start tapering their doses of kratom down as the withdrawal was easing. They continued to take insanely high doses of kratom, forty grams or more in a day! After two or three days of this, they called me up complaining of feeling extremely tired and lethargic all the time. They said the day before, forty grams of kratom had been very effective and had them up and working steadily all day, but the next day they could barely drag their ass out of bed.

I said the obvious: You are taking too much kratom! My own usual dose of kratom is 6-8 grams, taken slowly over 4-6 hours. I can't even fathom how this guy can take 40 grams! I would be so, so sick from that much! His tolerance is clearly through the roof. At doses over 10 grams, I find that kratom starts to cause a noticeable lethargy the day after. I recommended that he taper his doses of kratom down drastically, to no more than 1 rounded tablespoon. Even one rounded teaspoon can be enough, to give that little bit of energy and focus the mind and body for work. Anything more than 1 heaping tablespoon is overkill. Kratom is pretty innocuous, but at doses higher than this it WILL cause lethargy and withdrawal effects of its own.

After tapering down the kratom I recommended cutting out all stimulants (kratom and any caffeine) for at least a few days, and to drink lots of water to help flush the adrenals. Herbs like Rhodiola rosea and reishi fungus can be used to help support and revitalize his adrenal glands, which must be pooched. Also taking a micro-dose of syrian rue (half a gram or less made into tea) around an hour/hour and a half before bed can help getting to sleep and also raise energy levels for the next couple days, due to its raising of all monoamines (serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine etc). One final suggestion was a micro-dose (0.2-0.3 grams) of Psilocbye cubensis can act at a "smart pill" kind of level to help balance and regulate the mind and energy levels. Indeed, mushrooms can also shift perception to realize that one does not NEED opiates or kratom to feel good, you can feel good all on your own!

In conclusion, while kratom seemed a good possibility for dealing with mild opiate withdrawal symptoms, a more severe withdrawal was not treated as effectively. The subject slipped into the habit of just using mega-doses of kratom instead of the poppy tea, and this in turn caused its own unpleasant withdrawal effects. If one is thinking of using kratom to help with opiate withdrawals, it is advisable to keep the dosages of kratom as low as possible. Don't be taking it to get high, because that is just promoting the drug-seeking behaviour that fueled the opiate binge in the first place. Use the bare minimum - just enough to ease the withdrawal to manageable levels. For more serious cases of opiate withdrawal, kratom may not be an effective option.
Sleep until the Sunlight burns a Happy Whole in your Heart.